Episode 204: The Right Design Goes the Distance – Featuring The ASPCA

During a year infamous for Zoom fatigue, the annual Right Horse Summit went virtual – and the results were surprising. GLP Consultant Val Uccellani and Christie Schulte Kappert from The Right Horse Initiative – the ASPCA’s equine adoption program – share the unique strategies they used to design a virtual summit that had participants engaged – on and away from the screen. The virtual summit fostered innovation and boosted collaboration between adoption and industry partners.

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This show is produced by Global Learning Partners and Greg Tilton JR.

Theme music: ‘Pretty Face’ by Una Walkenhorst.

Read the transcript for the episode below.


Meg (11s): Hello, and welcome to Shift the Power: A Learning-Centered Podcast, where we talk about the revolutionary power of a learning-centered approach. Through this podcast, we hope to inspire creative thinking and provide practical tools and techniques to deepen learning through dialogue. We’re your co-hosts Meg Logue —

Peter (28s): And Peter Noteboom.

Meg (30s): Today, we’re joined by GLP Partner Val Uccellani and Christie Schulte Kappert from The ASPCA’s Right Horse Initiative to talk about the Right Horse Initiative’s work on revamping their annual Right Horse Summit in a virtual setting. Welcome! So to start us off, Christie, why don’t you tell us a bit about yourself and The Right Horse Initiative?

Christie (51s): Of course. Thank you so much for having me. So The Right Horse Initiative is a program of The ASPCA focused around increasing equine adoption. And this program was launched in 2016 as part of a private family foundation called the Arnall Family Foundation, and we are now in our fifth year at our permanent home with The ASPCA. And really what we’re trying to do is advance equine adoption, so that people choose adoption when they are acquiring a horse, as much as they do for dogs and cats. And we are about maybe 20 years behind the advances that small animal adoption has made, and we bring together a variety of partners to achieve this.

So my role with The Right Horse is I’m the Program Director. I’ve been in a program management role since 2018, with The Right Horse and my background is in marketing and program management in the equine industry. My degrees are in Business with a concentration in Marketing and Equine Science. And so I’m very lucky in this role. To sum it up, I pull everybody together to work in the same direction towards increasing equine adoption.

Meg (2m 1s): Thank you, Christie for that introduction. It’s so wonderful to have you here with us today. Now, Val — to you, why don’t you tell us a bit about yourself and how you came to be involved in this project?

Val (2m 13s): I’d be happy to, but I just have to say first that when Christie said her role is to pull everyone together and move them in the same direction — I’ve got to say that that is exactly what I witnessed in the project we’re about to discuss, so works beautifully. So I am a Co-Owner and a Senior Partner at Global Learning Partners, and am really honored to be part of a very long relationship now between Global Learning Partners and The ASPCA. I was thinking back over the years, the range of work that we’ve been collaborating on over the years — it’s ranged from working with the A to build their internal capacity in a learning-centered approach, to support strategic planning efforts, to create technical training packages, and more.

And this many years of collaboration began with a few folks I, I want to mention here today, because it’s really through their commitment as true change-makers that this has happened, namely Bert Troughten and the late Julie Morris at the ASPCA, and through their relationship with one of the long-time leaders of Global Learning Partners, Peter Perkins. And other leaders at the A, like Emily Weiss, who is the Vice President of Equine Welfare have sustained a learning-centered approach, and was the one who contacted me initially to see if I might be interested in mentoring Christie and her team in supporting the Right Horse Initiatives’ Annual Summit.

Peter (3m 45s): Pretty interesting. So if I have this correct you’re role is to really increase the rate of adoption of horses. You used the word equine, but horses and equine must be the same thing? So, and, and folks get together once a year to work out how to do that well, and in the last year you had to do that online. If I’ve got that right — can you tell us a little more about how this whole project got started? And as you moved into a virtual way of doing it, what opportunities and challenges, you saw?

Christie (4m 19s): Yeah, absolutely. And for, for the curious minds, you’re right. Equine generally means horses, but it also includes donkeys, mules and all of those little cuties, they fall under that same umbrella. And you’re right! We do connect once a year in-person, in a normal year, all of us together. We also have many opportunities throughout the year, virtually and in Zoom meetings and Facebook groups and things like that. But the summit is so important because when we created it would be 2019, we wanted to be able to bring everyone together in-person to learn from each other and collaborate and be inspired. And part of the reason for that is because of our 80 plus partners, they’re all across the country from Florida, to Massachusetts, to California, to everywhere in-between.

And so coming together and refocusing around this mission, it is so important to try to do that together. Where we feel like we had some great opportunities, is the culture was really already baked in to The Right Horse, where it’s built around people connecting with each other or learning from each other, sharing of challenges, wanting to be inspired and connected. And that’s something that we’ve worked very hard to cultivate through all of the communications and partnerships that we use and build throughout the year. Of course our biggest challenge was everybody’s challenged last year, right? How can we do that when we can’t be together?

Peter (5m 48s): Right.

Christie (5m 49s): And so bringing that to a virtual setting, especially when a lot of the topics, whenever you get into animal rescue and horse rescue, it can be sensitive. It can be very difficult and emotional. And so how do you build trust with people through a screen? How do we capture their attention when everyone was distracted and very, frankly tired of being on Zoom after months of that. And so, how could we focus folks around this one thing that we have in common, which is a desire to increase horse adoption?

Peter (6m 22s): You know, so interesting to me because, you know, as Valerie you mentioned, you know, the relationship with ASPCA, it goes back many years. And the names that, that Valerie mentioned are familiar to me, and I’ve learned from them too about learning-centered approaches. And so when I think of ASPCA, I think a community that’s already quite familiar with learning-centered approaches. So what, what were you hoping for from GLP when you reached out to Valerie or, or, or to GLP in general to, you know, accompany you in this process?

Christie (6m 55s): We wanted some expert guidance to make sure what we were building was actually what would help our partners. So we had these ideas of how we felt like our partners could grow and change to advance their missions, but we wanted to make sure that they would feel the same way and/or that they would receive it in the way that we felt like we were presenting it. So both the topics and the content, as well as the format in the ways that we can apply these learnings. And we also wanted to make sure that we had a safe learning environment. There are a lot of topics that are tough to talk about. And I think that’s one thing that the leader’s like Bert and Julie, who you mentioned and Emily, do so fantastically is be able to discuss those very nuanced and difficult things and try new things and feel supported in that. And so trying to build a platform and a framework where we can encourage that kind of learning and risk-taking.

Peter (7m 56s): Cool, thank you!

Meg (7m 59s): Val. How about for you, from your perspective when you were first reached out to about this project, what was your approach to mentoring Christie and her team through this challenge?

Val (8m 12s): Yeah, you know, I think one of the first things that came up for me as we began this work together was that this is a new team of people who didn’t know GLP directly, although many of their colleagues at the A did. But Christie, I remember the very first conversation where Emily introduced us and some of the same challenges that you were describing, you all were confronting in the virtual world of the Summit, we were confronting, right? Just in our meetings. We’ve, we’ve still, never met each other in person now. And as I’m saying that I am, I’m surprised actually, because I feel like we know each other quite well.

So I think the approach really began with just recognizing that we had some relationship building to do with each other. And, and yet we couldn’t take too much time to do it. So just getting a sense of who you all were, what you were envisioning, what you were really hoping to achieve through the summit and listening well to that before launching into recommendations. And I think we both know that lots of recommendations came and hopefully not too many, but, but beginning, really with getting to know you and your really fantastic team. And to affirm that a lot of what you were already doing, even though you didn’t necessarily have the language for it that we have in the field of adult learning, you were doing a lot intuitively that aligns beautifully with the principles and practices of adult learning.

So for example, I know even when we first met, you all had already reached out to Summit participants, both formally through a survey, informally through the personal connections that you have, and explored with people what they were looking for, what topics and sessions would be most timely, most relevant to them. Because in this fast changing world we’ve lived in, especially this past year, so important to really stay abreast of what people’s realities are, so that a Summit of this sort of can speak to those. Something else I noticed is that you and your team were very willing to experiment, but to do so thoughtfully.

And I think that thoughtful experimentation is really at the heart of good design work. Again, especially now, when you’re moving from a familiar format to a new format.

Peter (10m 40s): That sounds so familiar, Valerie, that’s the, that’s the way I’ve often heard these relationships described. And yet I often find myself asking the question that even after hearing a story like that, or thinking about, you know, myself, when I was in that kind of position, asking the question. But where do I begin? Where is the first hook? How do I decide where to begin to start the process, the journey together? I wonder maybe both Valerie and Christie, you could, you could reflect on that question. Could you tell us how you decided where to start?

Val (11m 14s): Well, Christie, I’ll jump in and then I hope you’ll add from your own recollections, but Peter, this is a, a familiar principle for us, right? As learning designers, it’s to begin where others are. And one thing that struck me in- from our very first meeting is that the team had chosen the word “Summit” to describe this event, both when it was in-person and now when it was going to live virtually. And so one of the places I started was to invite them to think about what a summit is and to use that as a metaphor, right? A summit is a peak. It’s something that doesn’t stand alone. It just doesn’t pop up out of the ground.

It- there’s, there’s a ramp up to it and there’s a ramp off it. And I think it creates a really powerful metaphor for learning. When we’re creating an event, we really want to think about what’s the participant’s experience going to be leading up to this event and leading off of it. And it creates all sorts of opportunities for designers when you think that way. So I know that was one of the first places I started.

Christie (12m 22s): Yes. And we- we’re huge fans of the- of metaphors and puns. Anybody who spends a little time in The Right Horse ecosystem will either jump right on board or swiftly, get very sick of all the horses and a saddle puns and “Tallyho!” and “giddy up” and all of that stuff. That, that ended up being very valuable. And we, we had so many directions that we felt like we could take it, and so many sessions and content types that we wanted to include. And what we tried to do is look out what are the questions that are persistently coming up for our partners? What are the challenges that they all share, or that they’re seeing most often?

And then, what did we think could help them impact the greatest number of horses? Or what could they implement the most quickly or most effectively? Because, you know, truly we felt like we could have a month-long Summit and not cover everything, but what could we do in a few days that would help them impact the most horses?

Peter (13m 26s): And I’m just hearing that laser like focus on beginning where people are as- as you put it and then that metaphor of the summit and what leads up to that and what would be best for the most horses. Ah, you also mentioned experimenting along the way. Could you give us an example of experiments that, maybe it turned out well or it didn’t turn out so well?

Christie (13m 48s): So we experimented a lot with break-outs and initially I think we were a little bit- we kind of went in waves. We were a little hesitant to add some and then we added a ton of breakouts in many sessions. And then I personally, I don’t know if I expressed this to the other planners, when we got up close to the actual Summit, I said, what have we done? There’s way too many of these. It will never work. They’ll all have whiplash from going back and forth. And those turned out to be one of the most impactful tools that we used, because it gave people a chance to be in a smaller group, digest, connect with others, feel like their voices were being heard, and bring back a little bit of the intimacy that is lost when you’re staring at 50 tiny faces on your screen.

Peter (14m 39s): Interesting. Valerie, what about you? What, what experiments did you propose or did you see tried out? And how do they, what, what, what effect did they have?

Val (14m 49s): Yeah. You know, one that comes to mind is really before thinking about things like breakouts and other techniques — which again, they are, the group was really creative with — but it came at a rather early stage and it was when the team was using the handy-dandy, tried and true, template that Global Learning Partners almost always recommends, which is the Eight Steps of Design. So, you know, such a central tool in the Dialogue Education system and, and Christie and her colleagues jumped right in to build out the design of the Summit from the start using that Eight Steps. And you know, as I looked over it, I found myself tripping over the fact that there were really two pretty significantly different groups of learners for whom they were designing this Summit.

One group of learners, the Adoption Partners — Christie, you can probably describe them better — but I thought of them as more kind of the grassroots folks, who might work with very kind of limited resources, much smaller scale. And then Industry Partners, who have more resources at their disposal, but aren’t involved quite in the same day-to-day and yet have wisdoms certainly, and experiences to share with the adoption partners. So what I suggested as an experiment was see what happens if you build two separate Eigh Steps of Design, as though you we’re going to have these folks at two different summits, build one for the adoption partners and build one for the industry partners and then see what happens.

And that seemed to provide some real clarity about how each of these two groups of learners were both bringing different things to the summit and would want to walk away with different things. And so that led to identifying certain sessions, a whole track, for the adoption partners and a whole track for the industry partners and then a track where these two groups came together in sessions that would benefit them both.

Peter (16m 50s): One event, two designs.

Val (16m 52s): Yeah. Christie, what would you add to that? I am wondering about your thoughts about how that worked or didn’t work for y’all.

Christie (16m 60s): It really worked spectacularly. Our partners comes from lots of different backgrounds and our adoption partners are those rescue and re-homing and adoption groups who have facilities that are taking in horses, they’re re-training and rehabilitating them, and then adopting them out to new homes. So they have a very direct day-to-day hands-on connection. This is their work. Our industry partners are from a wide variety of backgrounds in the horse industry. So they might be an equine pharmaceutical company. They might be a media company with magazines. They might be a professional organization like the American Association of Equine Practitioners, who are all veterinarians.

And those folks do not necessarily have a day-to-day hands-on connection to horses that are moving from home to home. And so we were very concerned about how do we make this real to our industry partners and how do we help them see the need for their input and how much we value their expertise and give them ways to directly apply that. And of course, in 2020, more than ever, how could they make an impact from a distance? And once we built those two separate learning designs for those audiences, it became so much clearer where there were sessions that we built specifically for each group individually, where we built joint sessions and even how they interacted within those sessions, whether that be a breakout or a mentorship, and having those independent, but interconnected designs made all the difference in making sure we were reaching our goals.

Meg (18m 44s): I absolutely love that- that strategy, what a simple but powerful technique to make sure that all of the people who are participating in this Summit are really getting what they need out of it. That’s super exciting to hear about it. You know, I’m curious, Christie and Val, what other trouble did you get in along the way? And how did you get out of it?

Val (19m 7s): You know, the first thing that comes to mind is a tension, I think we can say, and maybe a confusion that arose in one of the team meetings — and Christie, I so appreciated how thoughtful you were about inviting me in to just be a part of your team meetings, so I could hear kind of what was coming up in the process — I was really, really glad that I was there for one, where I think the confusion and tension really came from a lack of understanding of what it means to design a session or hold a session or own a session. Because Christie was managing quite a big team of people involved in the creation of the Summit, many of whom were asked to own a session and design a session.

And what that really means, I think we needed some unified understanding of and they handled it so beautifully, they just really talked through what the practicalities of owning a session are. And it seems like I was witnessing this conversation that was showing signs of a shift from a teacher-centered approach to a learning-centered approach. As people realized that, “Oh, a session designer isn’t the same as a subject matter expert.” Right? A, a session designer may or may not have deep knowledge of the topic, but their role is primarily to make the session the best learning experience it could be for the learners.

And as that got clarified, there just seemed to be this lightness coming in to the team meeting and, and people, you know, realizing that if they were to take on being a designer, that meant that they were really taking on quite a- a creative opportunity, and that they had many different ways in which they could provide content to learners, be it a visiting guest speaker, a panel, some readings, some videos, right. It just opens the door to — what are all of the different ways that I, as a session designer might provide relevant content to folks and then engage them in using that content in their own reality? So that was the– that was a “trouble” moment. And I thought that the team just handled it beautifully.

Christie (21m 22s): And Val — you kind of mentioned something that is unique also to 2020, is that The Right Horse was a brand new program of The ASPCA. So having been, as I like to call it adopted in late 2019 — that this team was new to working all together, new, to planning a Summit together, and then of course the gigantic monkey wrench of having to shift virtually unexpectedly. So we had a lot of, a lot of newness in the team who was planning it overall and being able to refer back to the design and the models that we built, did give us a lot of clarity.

Peter (22m 1s): That’s great to hear. So, give us a glimpse, having done a couple of designs, having used breakout rooms more, having made us shift to not so much presenting information, but designing the best possible learning event. How did it turn out? What difference did it make? What was even surprising about what happened?

Christie (22m 21s): It turned out absolutely amazing. It was a, I think even better than we could have hoped. The, the event was four days long and by about half-way through the first day, we could just feel people tuning into the sessions and really participating thoroughly and so fully. Both the sort of qualitative and interstitial feedback, as well as our survey feedback show that it was very impactful for our partners. They all had different places where they had these big “aha moments”. And probably one of the best statistics that we have — and this was not solely due to the Summit, but in very large part because of the Summit — it’s that our partners grow their adoption’s by over 20% in 2020, and then —

Meg (23m 12s): Wow!

Christie (23m 12s): In a, yeah, in a regular year, much less a pandemic year, with such uncertainty and everything changing underneath our feet, the fact that they were able to do that and help that many more horses is certainly due in part to the collaborations that they made at the summit, and the new principles or updated program styles and tactics that they learned. So overall, when we look at success, that’s a huge indicator of success. And, you know, just the other day I was on a call with one of our industry partners. So it’s, mid-March now, this summit was in September, and she commented again about how it was one of the best conferences she’s ever been to in-person or virtual. So for it to still be on folks’ minds is pretty impressive.

Peter (23m 59s): That’s great! Val — you have accompanied so many events, every one’s different, but what, what surprised you about how this one turned out?

Val (24m 8s): You know, I think it’s the way that the team was able to bring such a personal touch to pull in every participant into this huge event. Well, the program is sitting here in my hand. It is beautiful. It’s engaging. You want to open it. It’s- it’s full of colored photographs and all of that, but more importantly, it provides the learners with this map of what the learning process of the Summit was going to be for them. Inviting folks to do pre-session work and post-session work. It offers case studies. It offers practical tips, like “if we do a breakout group and you all are self-facilitating a breakout group, here are some tips for having that self-facilitated group go well”.

It’s just so creative and personal, despite the, the virtual nature of it and the, the size of it. That’s one thing I would mention. But beyond this program, there were a number of things that were sent to participants beforehand in a box. Everyone received a, a box that had a number of practical tools. Christie, you can probably say more of what was in the box, but I know when I received mine, I was, I knew that this Summit had been designed with such thought and such care to each individual person who was coming. Hats off.

Peter (25m 29s): What told you that by what was in there?

Val (25m 31s): Well, one thing is that it gave people something tactile, and opportunities for people to personalize what they were getting out of the summit. So even space for you to write down some of your takeaways for next steps from a particular session, ways that the platform was designed to help you connect with other people who you may have met during a session and started a really important conversation with, you- and you wanted to continue that conversation with them afterwards, the platform was designed to make that easy for folks, right? So it was looking at everything through the experience of the participant and “how can we make this most easy and most impactful for each person who comes?”

Peter (26m 18s): Thank you.

Meg (26m 19s): So wonderful to hear down to the level of detail of the program and what you send people in advance. It all makes a difference and it’s incredible when it’s – each piece down to the smallest detail is really informed by the “who”. And that’s- that’s what I’m hearing from you, Val. So Christie, what would you say are some of your key takeaways from this whole experience, that you would highlight for folks who might be considering doing a similar kind of event for their organization?

Christie (26m 54s): Yeah, sure. So we focused so much — and it was really thanks to Val and all the GLP tools — we focused so much on the design at the beginning, and there were a few points, were it felt like, okay, let’s get on and plan the sessions, get to the deep planning, but it turns out that that saying “go slow to go fast”, really applied, and we actually weren’t going slow, we were doing a lot of thorough, thoughtful design work. And so every question or wrinkle that we ironed out in the beginning made it easier to develop the actual content. It made the session’s that much more effective and solid.

And so again, having those 4-A’s to refer back too, and the Eight Steps of Design, it just, it anchored us so concretely. And that was a huge help in achieving what we wanted to do with the sessions. And as Val mentioned, the little things they really do matter, especially missing out on the specialness of being together. The swag box that we put together, it had apparel had a t-shirt, it had a, a glass with a logo printed on it that we use for a cocktail hour. We actually used the box itself for an evening session where Emily led an equine enrichment.

So building sort of a, basically a toy for horses out of the box itself. And so that gave us a way to have folks do something tactile. You know, we’ve been staring at each other on Zoom all day long, in the evening we gave them an optional opportunity to be there again, but this time to do something with our hands and take that box and turn it into a tool that they could use for their horses. And that was very refreshing. So every piece that went into the box that they received had a purpose and was aimed at helping them feel like “we’re not together, but we are sure as close as we can be without physically being together.” And then all of these pieces work towards, you know, improving the lives of the horses that we’re helping and helping them find their homes and be happier and healthier and all that good stuff.

Peter (29m 8s): I hear those themes coming through loud and clearly — that’s great. What- what’s best for the horses and also just the thoughtfulness, and intention that goes into every, every part of the planning and preparation. You mentioned something earlier that I’ve been listening for, actually in terms of a take away from myself from this conversation. You mentioned how much you used breakout rooms in this virtual summit. And I wanted to ask you, how are the virtual breakout rooms different from, you know, what might have been table groups are two-by-two conversations or a small groups in-person. What was different about designing for breakout rooms in what made that work well in a virtual setting, I’m listening for some tips about that one.

Christie (29m 56s): Yeah. We did some learning on the fly with those and like Val mentioned, the five tips that she puts together for breakout participants were extremely helpful. Things like share the airspace, to make sure that other folks have a chance to speak up and be heard. The one thing that we learned fairly quickly was we needed to be sure to give them clear instructions about what we hoped that they would accomplish in those breakouts. And in Zoom, there was also a feature where are the main host can send a message out, I think is called a broadcast to folks in the breakout. So, you know, we’d drop in on some of the breakouts and hear, what were they talking about?

And occasionally there would be a group that had maybe not heard all the instructions or were sort of just off topic, talking about other things. And so we were able to remind them, okay, at the end of this breakout, you should have X decided, or this idea of, of this agreement or something that you’ve worked on. And so being able to remind them of here’s the purpose of your breakout, and here are maybe some resources to help you get there and helping them sort of stay on task and on focus, where at a maybe in-person table meeting you might have all the info in front of us. And so zoom actually made it fairly easy to do that, but it did take a little bit of trial and error to say, “Oh, we’ve got, you know, a couple of groups are off track and how can we help them get back on?”

Peter (31m 29s): Interesting. What about you, Val? What have you been in learning about how to make breakout rooms in virtual settings work really well?

Val (31m 35s): Yeah. You know, when it comes to mind is more how to take advantage of what a virtual space offers for breakout groups. You know, when we’re in a conference hall together at a large hotel, it’s hard to say, “OK, industry partners and adoption partners get together. Okay, 20 minutes later, we’re going to have just trios of adoption partners together. Then we’re gonna…” In a virtual space, that’s not hard. You’ve got everybody there. You can break them up all sorts of different ways, so much more efficiently than you can if you’re having to walk the halls of a conference space. So I think a big takeaway for me is just don’t limit your thinking about what’s possible and looking at the virtual space as this great opportunity to combine people in different ways for different purposes, right? Always with great intentionality around what it is you’re hoping folks will get out of it.

Peter (32m 32s): That’s a great perspective, Val.

Meg (32m 35s): Thank you, Val and Christie, for those, those insights on breakout rooms. I know it’s a feature a lot of us are learning a lot about over the last year or so. Val, I want to take it back and get a sense from you. What is a key takeaway for you is from this whole event, what would you say is the key takeaway for other learning designers who might be listening on how a learning-centered approach was really valuable to this endeavor?

Val (33m 3s): You know, I think I’m is probably at this point after a year of all of us experimenting with this, I’m not saying anything new to the listener in just confirming that all of the principles of adult learning that drive the success of an in-person event also drive the success of a virtual event. Relevance, engagement, immediacy. Right? And I think that if I may just say a bit more about that principle of immediacy, which is really connected to having learners use or apply or do what it is, they’re learning and doing it in the context of the event. So for example, if the team wanted adoption partners and industry partners in certain ways to form mentoring relationships.

And so if that’s what they wanted to have happen after the event, they needed to make that happen during the event. So those relationships were formed and, and value came of them during the event to make it more likely, right, that those same mentoring partnerships would continue after the event. Similarly with skill building, teaching folks how to take really effective photographs of horses. You know, if that’s what you want them to do after the event, then have them do it during the event. And, you know, we might say, well, how are you going to do that in a virtual setting? But this team found a way, right? They, they had folks get away from their screens — go out, take photographs using certain guidelines, come back, post the photographs they’d taken, look at each other’s photographs of horses, glean, you know what you can from your peers’ photographs, and then go take some more.

And, you know, watch the improvement in your photographs and post them to your own social media. So again, just that the principle of having folks do what you are teaching applies equally in a virtual setting as in an in-person setting.

Meg (34m 60s): I love that definitely an an encouraging thought on how to not limit the possibilities. Just because we are gathering together on a, on a virtual platform does not mean that we can’t physically do things, get up and move our bodies and try out what we’re learning. I just want to say, thank you so much, Christie and Val for you for taking the time to join us today and to share your experience and your insights. This is a challenge that many folks are, are facing throughout the last year, and it’s extremely valuable to be able to hear what other folks are doing to address that challenge. So thank you, Christie. And thank you, Val, for, for sharing.

Val (35m 43s): Thanks for having us.

Christie (35m 45s): Yes. Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Meg (35m 48s): And as always, we’re going to end our episode with an away question for our audience, an opportunity for you to pause and ponder. So you’re away for today: what’s one insight technique or idea that you heard from Val and Christie that you’d like to try out in your own convening or virtual summit?


Meg (36:20s): Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Shift the Power: A Learning-Centered Podcast. This podcast is produced by Global Learning Partners and Greg Tilton JR. With music by Una Walkenhorst. To find out more about Global Learning Partners, whether it be our course offerings, consulting services, free resources or blogs, go to www.GlobalLearningPartners.com. We invite you to sign up for our mailing list, subscribe to our podcast and find us on social media to continue the dialogue. If you enjoy the show, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast player. [MUSICAL OUTRO FADES]