Jan 18, 2022
Bill Baker, Founder and Principal of BB&Co Strategic Storytelling, knows the value of a good story. Whether you’re garnering support in your organization for a new strategic plan or teaching parents about child healthcare, stories help people make meaning that sticks. In this episode, Bill shares key insights on how to pick and tell the right stories, for the right moments to build rich connections and inspire deep learning.
Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or virtually anywhere podcasts are found! Sign up for a Storytelling Workshop with BB&Co.
This show is produced by Global Learning Partners and Greg Tilton Jr. with theme music by Una Walkenhorst.
Read transcripts for the episode below.
MEG
[INTRO MUSIC] Hello, and welcome to Shift the Power: A Learning-Centered Podcast, where we talk about the revolutionary power of a learning-centered approach. Through this podcast, we hope to inspire creative thinking and provide practical tools and techniques to deepen learning through dialogue.Â
Welcome to Shift the Power. I’m your host Meg Logue and today I’m joined by Bill Baker, the founder and principal of BB&Co Strategic Storytelling to talk about how we can use storytelling as a tool for learning. So welcome, Bill.
BILLÂ
Thank you.
MEGÂ
It’s great to have you here with us today.
BILLÂ
Yeah, it’s good to be here.
MEGÂ
Just to start us off, I wonder if you would give us a bit of an introduction, tell us a bit about yourself and a bit about your organization.
BILLÂ
I’m basically a recovering advertising executive. I worked in the soul sucking world of advertising for 18 years, I worked in New York City for 10 years, after I graduated from college, and then I moved to Vancouver, in Canada in 1998. And I continued in the business for eight more years, but in the advertising business, I was a strategic planner. And, so, I help clients figure out their strategic vision, figure out what their brand was all about, engage and align all their employees and stakeholders around that. And then sometime around 2006, I was recruited by a little storytelling company that I had never heard of, that was actually my backyard. And what they did was marry the rigor of strategic planning with the magic of storytelling. And so for me, it was like the perfect job opportunity at the perfect time and I honestly thought I’d died and gone to heaven. So, I stayed with that firm for four years and then I decided to hang out my own shingle and start my own thing in 2010 and I’ve been doing that ever since. So, in a nutshell, what we do is we basically help organizations uncover their narrative, their organizational brand story, but what we also do, and perhaps most of our work, is training professionals about how to use storytelling in their workplace communications.
MEGÂ
Wonderful, thank you so much for that brief introduction, and I’m going to tease out a little bit, kind of how you got into storytelling. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about that moment that really sparked your journey to becoming a storyteller?
BILLÂ
Well, I have to say that I grew up in a storytelling family, like around the dinner table, you know, my siblings, my parents, my grandparents, we always grew up with stories. And, so, it was always a part of my life. And then somewhere along the way, I learned how to squeak out a living at it. My mom, still to this day doesn’t really understand what I do for a living and she’s always very concerned when I tell her I’m a Strategic Storyteller. She’s like, “what does that mean, exactly? What – what do I tell people?” So, she’s very concerned with this, even though I’ve explained it to her many times, but as I told you, you know, my company, works with organizations to help them uncover their organizational narrative. But there’s other part of our business, which is actually the bulk of our business, is in storytelling training and to be honest with you, Meg, I kind of stumbled into that, by accident. I was speaking at a conference in Chicago many years ago and someone from GE was at that conference, someone from GE, who worked in global learning and she went back to her team and said, “we need to call this guy because he gave a really good talk and he also told a lot of stories in his talk.” And, so, I had someone from GE call me up and said, that her boss had seen me speak and said, I did a good job, which was nice to hear, and that I told some good stories, which was also nice to hear, but she said, “have you ever trained anyone to do that? Tell stories in workplace communications?” And I said, “no.” And she said, “do you think you could?” And I said, “yeah, sure, why not.” And, so, I was invited by GE to create a curriculum, and then I’ve refined it over the years, but that was my first gig at training professionals how to use storytelling and since then, it’s expanded through networking, through people finding me, through references and referrals. And, now, the storytelling training that we do, is used by companies like GE, Coca Cola, Cisco, Dell, Prudential, Lululemon, Electronic Arts, so, it’s really expanded over the years from that one opportunity that I had way back when.
MEGÂ
Wow and to think your mother is worried about whether it’s really taking off, that’s a – quite an impressive list of clients there. That’s wonderful.
BILLÂ
Yeah, it’s been great and I really, really enjoy it. My father was a teacher and so I think I come by it honestly, but it’s – it’s really just great to teach people how to tap into themselves and develop new skills and with those skills, increase their impact, and their ability to persuade and influence and engage and inspire other people.
MEGÂ
Hmm, absolutely. What- can you tell us a little bit more about the “strategic” part of Strategic Storytelling? What exactly does that mean to you?
BILLÂ
Well, in terms of Strategic Storytelling, let me tell you more about, I think one of the common predicaments that I run into when it comes to storytelling in workplace communications. Storytelling is one of these weird paradoxes, because on one side, it’s infinitely familiar to all of us, because we have all grown up with storytelling. We’ve been telling stories, hearing stories, reading stories, watching stories, all of our lives, so it’s infinitely familiar. And, yet, when you ask people, “okay, now, I want you to use that thing at work.” Many people get strangely intimidated by that, they’re like, “oh, no, no, no, no, no, I am not a good storyteller. There is no way I’m telling a story in a workplace situation.” And, so, they gravitate just to the facts, information, straightforward messages and that’s it. They don’t stray far from those lines, but what I always say to people is you don’t have to be the most amazing, dynamic, theatrical storyteller in the world to tell the right story, with the right message and make it a good story. Telling the right story with the right message is being “strategic” about the stories that you’re telling. So, you’re not just telling any old story, at any old time, you are telling the right story to deliver the right message to the right audience at the right time. That’s what I mean by being “strategic” about the storytelling that you’re doing.
MEGÂ
Yeah, I feel like this really resonates with me, in part, because you know, the approach that we use at GLP is very front loaded, in many ways, it really puts a heavy emphasis on the strategic elements of really designing intentionally a learning event, so, that-Â taking the opportunity ahead of time before you ever get to the learning event itself, to discover more about who the learners are, figure out why they have decided to engage in this learning event, plan for the kind of skills and concepts that they need to develop through this learning event.
BILLÂ
Right.
MEGÂ
And, so, this kind of very strategic approach really resonates with us for sure and I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about the pre-work that goes into deciding when to tell a story, what story to tell, and kind of those preparation steps for using strategic storytelling in your workplace communications?
BILLÂ
Yeah, it’s a very good question and I have to say, it’s really it’s not that difficult. I often say to people thinking strategically about the stories you’re telling, it’s not rocket science and I literally train rocket scientists how to tell stories. So, I mean that honestly, but what the thing is, when you think strategically about the stories that you’re using in workplace communications, what you need to do is identify what you need a story to do, so you can find the best story to do it. But thinking about what you need a story to do is kind of backing into that story, almost thinking deductively, about what you need that story to do. So, the way I teach it and the way I teach people how to approach it is first and foremost, like you, you start with your audience. You guys at GLP, you start with your your students and you think about your audience, you think about their situation, you think about their world right now, what’s happening to them, what’s happening around them, what’s happening inside of them. But then, once you do that, you start to think strategically, “what do I want them to do as a result of this communications exchange? What do I want them to do as a result of hearing their story? What action do I want them to take? Start doing, stop doing? Do more of do less of?” Then I think, “what do I think they need to think and or feel, or sometimes stop thinking and stop feeling, In order to take that action? What’s a message or idea I want them to hear, in order to get them to think and feel that way in order to get them to do what I want them to do?” And then, I think, “do I have a story that I could tell to deliver that message to shape those thoughts and feelings to motivate that action?” And sometimes, I come up with a story. sometimes identify a story and to be honest, sometimes I do not, I draw a blank. Then I just deliver the message to shape the thoughts and feelings, but if I can tell a story to bring that message to life, to shape those thoughts and feelings to motivate that action, stories have a way of sticking with us longer. They have more of an impact than straightforward messages and I want to be very clear, Meg, when I talk about, “do I have a story?” That story could be from my experience, work experience a life experience, but I could also tell a story from history share a story from sport, from literature, a parable, a fairy tale. So, it doesn’t always have to be a personal story that you’re sharing to still have a story that has an impact.
MEGÂ
Yeah, I just have to say listening to you, I’m thinking of the framework that we use it GLP, called the Eight Steps of Design and you named at least the first four steps in your description of preparation. So,-
BILLÂ
This is why we’re talking. This is why we’re talking
MEGÂ
Yeah, looking at the people, the situation, the anticipated change, boom, boom, boom, all of those things were named. So,-
BILLÂ
It’s interesting that, you know, communications 101, is you always start with your audience and always think about them. But I remember, unfortunately, my father passed away before I got into this and I think he would have really enjoyed talking to me about it as a teacher, but I remember when he used to talk about teaching, he would always talk about the students first. And he would always think about the impact that he wanted to have on the students, what he wanted them to get out of this class. It was never about what he has to say, what he has to get off his chest, what he wants to push on a classroom, it was more about the impact that he wanted to have. And then, he would design the curriculum, to make sure it had that impact and I just really appreciated the way he always took a Student-First Approach. It wasn’t about him, it wasn’t even about the content, it was always about the students and then the content and he filled in the gaps to make sure that impact was meaningful and memorable.
MEGÂ
Sounds like your father was an incredible teacher.
BILLÂ
He was a good one. Yeah, he really was.
MEGÂ
And a – a Learning-Centered Teacher, for sure.
BILLÂ
Yeah.
MEGÂ
So, just to illustrate this, as we’re talking about it, I wonder if you have a story of when this has worked particularly well for you with a company that you’ve worked with in the past?
BILLÂ
Well, I, you know, I naturally, as you can imagine, I have a robust library of stories that I pull from on a regular basis, but one of the things that I have been talking to people about, especially over the last two years, is getting people to recognize the unique experiences they’ve been having over the pandemic and what they’ve been learning as a result of it. I know, there’s many things we hope to move past, once this pandemic is over, if it’s ever over. But there are a lot of things that we’re learning because we find ourselves in unique situations and I remember my last business trip to New York City to do some work and I knew it was my last trip. It was March 13th, 2020 and I was at the Newark Airport about to catch the flight – the direct flight from Newark to Vancouver. And, you could just feel it in the air, like, “this is going to be my last trip for a while.” And it was really interesting, because I got to New York, and I went to the lounge, because I’m like this super high falutin Air Canada flyer, because I fly, so, I used to fly so much and there was just a different energy in the lounge. And I noticed that a lot of people were talking to each other. This was before masks, and there was this kind of this collective sense of camaraderie and I felt like we’re all almost war buddies and we saw this cloud looming on the horizon. And we knew things were going to be very, very different and about a half an hour before I was ready to board, I went to the bathroom. And, as I was standing at the sink, washing my hands, after using the facilities, I started humming “Happy Birthday to You,” which you’re supposed to sing twice, you know, make sure you’re washing your hands for the appropriate amount of time. And there are two other gentlemen standing on either side of me and they started humming and singing with me and all three of us were singing ,”Happy Birthday to You.” And it was just kind of this collective feeling of almost fellowship and camaraderie that we’re having and it was just this glow that a lot of people had as we are heading into the plane and also into this encroaching storm. And it just reminded me that we have experiences all the time that change the way we feel about something, the way we think about a situation and sometimes the way we behave and act as a result. And, so, I found myself sharing that story, when I started doing more and more virtual training, which everything went virtual over a while just to resonate with people that – listen, we have stories flowing around us each and every day and some of them go in one ear and right out the other and some of them just make us smile and giggle and we move on, but every once in a while, we find ourselves thinking about an experience, thinking about a story that we heard that we saw that we read, and we find ourselves, “gosh, I cannot stop thinking about that story.” What I always say to people, there’s probably a reason for that and if you learn something from that experience, if it was your own experience, or if you learn something from reading that story, watching that story or hearing that story, that might be a story for you to pull into your library and find a use for later on, because that story affected you. But, in sharing it with others, it could affect them as well.
MEGÂ
I love the idea of a “story library.”
BILLÂ
Yeah. People get very self conscious about that. Like, “I don’t have good stories to tell him,” like, “yes you do.” Once your consciousness gets raised on storytelling, you will start to realize, I’ve got some good stories in my life, you know, from my own experience, someone else’s experience, that great story from the Boston Marathon, that story from history. And once that consciousness gets raised, you start to recognize you have a lot more stories than you think you do and you start collecting them and then you start using them. Now, there are certain stories that I gravitate more towards more than others, but I’ve got a lot of stories in my library that are sitting there at the ready, should I need them.
MEGÂ
I’m just finding myself thinking about what stories I might have that I don’t even know about.
BILLÂ
Yeah, well, I tell you that the one question to ask yourself, is if you have an experience, if you see something, if you read something or watch something, and it sticks with you, and you find yourself, “I can’t stop thinking about that.” Ask yourself, “did I learn something from that experience? Did I learn something from reading that story? Or hearing that story? Did that create a shift in my thoughts in my feelings, maybe even inspired a change in behavior or action?” If you have answers to all of those things, that is a good story for you to have in your library. If, again, if it was just you know, I just had a good laugh and I moved on, then it’s probably just a story to share at the dinner table or the bar.
MEGÂ
Maybe not a story for inspiring learning.
BILLÂ
Right. Exactly.
MEGÂ
Yeah, I – I want to take a moment to talk about the stickiness of stories. What do you think it is about storytelling specifically, that – that sticks so well, for people, that kind of brings about these “aha moments,” where a piece of data, in and of itself, might not a story that connects to that piece of data does?
BILLÂ
Well, there’s been lots of research done on this in terms of why storytelling and stories resonate with us and stick with us and you know, what – at the risk of oversimplifying it, one of the key reasons that the data and the research has shown that that happens is because stories engage, activate and fire up more and different parts of our brains at the same time, then straightforward data, facts, information or messages. So, facts and information and messages break through to our brain, but usually only in one part most often in the frontal lobe, but stories will literally surround our brain from a variety of different angles, firing up different areas of our brain attached to different senses, different functions. And, so, you know, again, at the risk of oversimplifying it, stories make our brains more active, more open, more like a sponge, to absorb stuff and remember stuff. And, when I talk about the science behind it, in my training workshops, I often say to people, like for instance, you know, “how many of you can remember everything that you learned in college and university and most people cannot?” Because if you remember, and I’m dating myself, when I say this, but you know, studying for exams, you got the flashcards and you’re cramming all that information to your head, and you go and you take the exam, and then have a couple beers maybe afterwards, and poof, it all floats away. All gone, all gone. You know, you remember bits of it., but I still remember stories that my grandmother told me when I was five or six years old. I may not remember them perfectly, but I remember the basic gist of them, the point of them, what amused me about them, because they stick with our brains more than facts or information do.
MEGÂ
You know, I think there’s nothing wrong with the simple answer, because that’s sticky, too. I love it.
BILLÂ
Yeah, but you know when I got into this and I started thinking back on my dad, because I did – you know, he taught at the prep school, that I grew up in in Northeast Ohio. And when I went to that prep school, as a faculty brat, I took a couple courses with him because it was a small school. So, I couldn’t avoid doing that, but I remember him in the classroom, how much he would use storytelling, sometimes, frankly, at our own expense. He was also an Episcopal Minister. So, he would use stories in his sermons, but now I realize how much he used those stories to connect people to ideas and in a church or classroom situation, also connect them to each other along the way. And so you know, looking back on what he did through the lens of what I do now, I start to recognize how he would use those stories strategically, to have an impact on any audience, whether it was in the classroom or in the church.
MEGÂ
One thing that you just mentioned, was the connections and that actually leads perfectly into my – my next question for you, which was, in your website, in your materials, you describe how businesses are inherently a human endeavor and how – just like you said, storytelling is a tool for building connections within an organization and beyond it as well. And, you just named a few types of connections and at GLP, we have a model called the “Three C’s,” so, three connections that learners can basically make their learning more impactful and, so, as a designer you try to be mindful of inviting opportunities for connection to self, connection to the content that’s being taught and also connection to other learners. Kind of building off of what you were just sharing from your experience with your father, how do you see storytelling as a tool that can help people connect with themselves with the new ideas and with each other?
BILLÂ
Yeah, it’s a great question and I – I certainly think storytelling fires on all those cylinders. Let me talk about ideas first. Stories are a great way to take an idea and bring it to life for people and an idea could be a message, it could be a vision for the future, it could be a strategy, but I often say to people, when you are using stories to bring that idea to life, what you’re helping people really understand is why that idea is worth pursuing. Why that strategy is what it is, before you dive into the details of what the strategy is. So, in workplace communications, very often, we have to inform an audience. Here’s this initiative, this is how much it costs, this is how long it’s going to take, etc, etc. Those are details about the “what” and the “how,” but what I often say to people, when you are presenting that idea, for instance, to senior management, or to an audience, use a story to first establish why this idea is worth pursuing. “Before I dive into the details of this initiative, or this new curriculum that I’m proposing to you, let me tell you a quick story about where this idea came from” and what a story does is brings to life, the why. But, in sharing that story, you’re not only connecting that audience to that idea, you’re helping them see that idea in action and really appreciate the rationale and justification behind that. Now that can happen one-on-one with you presenting that to one person, but when it happens one-to-many, what happens is those people not only connect to that idea, they connect to you as a storyteller, but because it’s a shared experience, they also connect to each other. And, we’ve seen very, very famous examples of leaders using storytelling to do that, whether it’s Martin Luther King, you know, sharing his dream, his story for the future, in 1963, in that famous speech, or, you know, more recently Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, she was fantastic, especially at the start of the pandemic, in using storytelling to pull people through tough times to prepare them for it, but also talk about how we’re going to get through this by getting through it together. And, I love the way she used that storytelling, to not only set the vision for what we’re – what we’re striving for that, as I said, pull people together to make sure we are going to realize that vision. Because lastly, Meg, to your question, there’s the idea and connecting people to it, there’s connecting people to each other around that idea, but when you are sharing that idea, when you are sharing stories, it’s a wonderful way of letting people see a little bit of the person behind the professional, just letting them see a little bit of the human person that is sharing that story with that audience. And, in a corporate world, in a business world that is a big driver for me and my team, I want people to have more meaning in their work and I happen to think storytelling is one of the best ways to convey that meaning. But, I also want people to be more human in the workplace, I really want people to be a little bit more vulnerable, share some of their humanity, because when they do that with an audience, it really is a gift. And, the audience recognize, “you know what that took, that took some guts for Meg to share that story with me, she trusts me enough to do that. I’m going to trust her back, I’m going to listen to her and I’m going to follow her as a result.” I often say to my classes, when I’m teaching storytelling, you have to understand this, a little bit of humanity goes a long, long way. I’m not saying spill your guts out on the table. I’m not saying talk about everything that happened in your childhood. But when you share just a little bit of your own humanity, versus being a robot standing up there. It resonates and connects with your audience and helps them connect with you in a more meaningful and lasting way.
MEGÂ
Love that. A little bit of humanity goes a long way.
BILLÂ
It really does.
MEGÂ
I feel like the – the corporate world, like you said, it can be so easy with just being a part of such a large organization to lose sight of that personal and storytelling. I’ve never thought of it as such a powerful tool in that context, to really build connections between people from every level of an organization. I just noted that in some of your sharing just now, it did sound like storytelling, kind of in a, I don’t want to say a sage on the stage way, but storytelling and I’m imparting a story on to you and I wonder if you have examples of using this in a context where people are sharing stories in a group with each other? And, what impact that has kind of in using storytelling to spark dialogue around a particular issue?
BILLÂ
Yeah, it’s a it’s a great question, especially when you compare it and contrast it to, you know, sage on the stage, or, you know, preaching from the big ivory tower of the university. I often say to people, you have to think about storytelling as a poll strategy, not a push strategy. Don’t get me wrong in the corporate world, every once in a while you have to push, you just have to say, “look, this is how it is, this is how it’s going to be no discussion, no debate.” You use those trump cards, you know seldomly, but every once in a while, you got to stand up and be the boss and say, “you know what, we’re not discussing this, this is the move that we’re going to make,” but when you think about storytelling as a pull strategy, what you’re doing is you’re sharing with an audience, this is how I see this situation, this is how I think and feel about it, I’m going to pull you along and help you see it in the same way, but ultimately, I’m not going to force it heavily upon you, I’m going to guide you along the way and trust that you’re going to draw the conclusions that I want you to draw, but importantly, draw them on your own. Because, you know this in education, it’s the same thing, when people kind of go that last 20 yards on their own and everything clicks for them, versus it being forced upon them, they will own those conclusions more, they will value them, probably remember them more and then much more, much more likely act on them in the future. I have seen people in workshops, I’ve trained 1,000’s and 1,000’s of people over the years, I’ve had the pleasure and privilege of doing that and I’ve trained all people of all different shapes and sizes, you know, all over the world. And I have seen people, you know, not to stereotype in any way, but big burly football player type guys stand up in front of a room, talk about one of their kids having juvenile diabetes, getting a little bit choked up as they’re talking about it, but in talking about it, sharing with that audience, what they learned from watching their kid go through that, and their resilience and perseverance, and optimism and hope that that kid would teach them this five year old, six year old kid and you could literally hear a pin drop in that room as that person was sharing that because as I said earlier, everyone recognized, this is not super easy for him to do, but in doing this, he is sharing something with others. He’s sharing part of himself with us. He’s pulling us into an idea and he’s just putting that idea, that learning, that wisdom out there and he’s inviting you to take part in it. He’s not heavy handedly shoving it down our throats, he’s just pulling us along and not only the impact of it is so so profound, but the learnings from that story resonate with people in a much more deep way. I referenced Martin Luther King’s speech a while ago, but one of the brilliant things about that speech is he stood up there and he said, “listen, I have a dream.” He didn’t say this has to be your dream, he didn’t say these people need to have this dream, he just said I have a dream and if this is your dream, too, by the way, it’s kind of also the American Dream, but if this is your dream, too, then I want you to join forces with me. It was so inviting. It was so accessible. There wasn’t a hint of lecture in it. He just kind of said, “I just want to share this with you and if you believe what I believe, join forces with me.”
MEGÂ
And the beauty of that, especially with the the first story you shared of kind of the big burly man-
BILLÂ
Yeah.
MEGÂ
-pouring his heart out and about his experience with his child. There’s something in every story, kind of the universal and the specific. There’s something in every story that someone can relate to. They can find a bit of themselves in that story and – and, like you said, build a connection with that person just from that simple story, they can establish a connection.
BILLÂ
Well, to that point, Meg, in thinking strategically about it, that’s something that I often focus people on, is even though the stories about you, most often unless you’re being interviewed by Oprah Winfrey, you’re telling them that story is not about you. You’re telling this story, because I learned something from this situation and I genuinely think you could benefit from this wisdom. So, even though the story is about you, you’re telling of that story is not about you and when a storyteller does it really well, especially in an organizational setting, to your point, exactly, they make sure that their audience by knowing their audience can see themselves reflected in that story. One of the best examples I use is one of the more common stories I’ve heard is not surprisingly, people talking about running a marathon for the first time and how hard that was and what a big challenge it was to overcome. Now, I have never run a marathon, I have no intention of running a marathon, so, right. Like, so, I can’t relate to that physical journey, but when the story is told, really well, I still see myself and having to overcome a tough challenge. I translate it to my own experience, but I still relate to the character in the story, because the storyteller has made sure that I relate to that character in the story.
MEGÂ
Love that. Love that. Would you say that there are certain elements that make up a successful stories, and I’ve shared a little bit about kind of how to select the right stories, but in the act of telling your story, what kind of components are you looking for, to share in that story?
BILLÂ
Well, this is not going to be surprising to you, but in a corporate setting, in an organizational setting, one of the things I constantly focus people on is listen, there’s a difference between a story and a report, or story and a case study. Stories are not better. They’re just different and very often in storytelling practice, someone will stand up and try a story and I’ll say, “yeah, that was really more of a report.” And, one of the key differences I draw is that reports tend to be more about what happened, what happened in the past, what is happening right now. Or maybe you’re proposing something that should happen in the future, but stories are about people and more specifically, not just what happened, but what happened to someone, what they saw what they said, what they heard, what they felt, what they experienced. Even if what happened to them was at work, we still have feelings, thoughts and actions when we’re at work. So, one of the biggest elements that separates a story from other workplace communications is that humanity, truly making it about people. The other thing, not surprisingly, is a plot. You know, stories have a plot and by that, I mean, they have drama, they have tension that builds, usually there’s a turning point of that tension, doesn’t always have to be, because sometimes in life and work, things don’t always work out. But, there is drama in that story and then lastly, because that story is strategic, there’s a point to the story. So, at the end of the story, the storyteller is saying, “you know what I learned from this situation, you know what I want you to take away from this story, you know what I realized from this experience is… (BLANK). And they’re sharing the point from the story, the moral of the story at the very end. Lastly, I will say that one of the things we focus on a lot in the training that I do, and this is more for an organizational setting versus like a Storytelling Festival, like “The Moth,” for instance, which is, you know, just fantastic storytelling, but in workplace storytelling, the stories have to be tight, efficient, and focused, not to generalize again, but one of the characteristics of bad storytellers is their stories go on, and on and on. And, at some point, you got to wrap it up and so that’s one thing that we focus on is making stories more focused, making sure they’re driving towards the point and all the details in they’re still making a story, but they’re not superfluous. Everything that’s in that story is there for a reason. So, that story has some focus and can have an impact.
MEGÂ
I love that. I think that that’s one thing that I have struggled with in my day-to-day storytelling, not in my strategic storytelling.
BILLÂ
Yeah, yeah. You’re not alone. You’re not alone.
MEGÂ
-not getting caught up in all this super fun details, but you end up five minutes down the road, you know what you didn’t really need to know that part of the story.
BILLÂ
I’m just gonna stop now. That’s what often happens, but the big – the big reason that happens is because people think about a story and they immediately start delivering that story and that rarely goes well. And, again, if you’re doing that, you know, out of the restaurant, or in a bar with friends and family, that’s not a big deal, but if you’re doing that at work, you do run the risk of wasting people’s time. So, that’s why I always encourage people, you need to think about that story in advance, I would suggest you actually have to practice the story out loud before you take it on the road.
MEGÂ
And, is your – is your recommendation generally to actually write it out and-
BILLÂ
I do.
MEGÂ
-read it aloud? Or do you try to kinda list it out.
BILLÂ
Yeah, I do. I – well, I would say 80% of the time that I do. So, for me, I follow my own approach that I teach. So, I think strategically about what I need a story to do, I identify that story. I will then map out in broad strokes, the general plot of that story. I usually do it on my whiteboard here in my office, like, it’s going to start like this, this happens and this happens and this happens and this is how it ends. And, to your question, I would say 80% of the time I will write it out. Now, I’m not writing it out like I’m going to submit it to the “New Yorker” or anything, but I’m just writing it out to get it out of my head and onto paper, but the other thing it does, Meg, when I write it out, what I will literally do is print it up and then that helps me kind of step outside of my story a little bit and look at it more objectively. And, when I’m literally reading it with a red pen, that’s when I can see, “oh, you know what, I don’t even need that whole paragraph, I’m going to get rid of that. I’m going to tighten this. I’m going to expand on that.” But, it does make me a bit more impartial, a bit more objective in reviewing my own story when I’m looking at it from the outside in. And, then lastly, if it’s a high-stakes situation for me, for instance, delivering a keynote at a conference, I will bounce the story off of someone else. Usually my partner who is brutally honest with me, I’ll run the story past him, he’ll say, like, “Bill, this is the message I got from your story. This is what I loved about it, but do you want to say that part in the middle?” And, I might say why that’s so funny. It’s like “no, Bill, that’s really not funny. That’s quite insensitive.” So, I would rather have one person tell me that then a roomful of 1,000 people tell me that. So, I do suggest to people, if it’s a high-stakes situation, run it pass someone else, bounce it off of someone else to make sure they’re hearing what you want them to hear and that there are no obstacles or speed bumps getting in the way of your audience embracing it.
MEGÂ
I think generally always a good idea to road test stories.
BILLÂ
Exactly.
MEGÂ
Well, I have a feeling that we could just keep going back and forth and chatting about this subject for a long time, but I would love to just wrap us up with one final wisdom from you. What is one practical tip for learning facilitators who may already be incorporating stories into their teaching designs? What’s one thing that they can do to improve the stories they are telling?
BILLÂ
I think I would – I would say is, I would go back to one of the points that I made before, which is that you have to make sure it’s always about your audience, with any story that you’re telling. And, so, to make sure it’s strategic, to make sure it’s relevant, to make sure it’s meaningful to make sure it lands and have an impact, you have to think about your audience. And knowing your audience, Meg, and what you all do at GLP, I’m sure that will resonate with them because they do the same thing. When they’re teaching, it’s the same approach with storytelling. It’s always about your audience, even if the story is about you.
MEGÂ
Wonderful, thank you so much for that closing insights and for all of the many insights that you shared throughout our discussion today.
BILLÂ
My pleasure.
MEGÂ
I really, really appreciate you taking the time to join us.
BILLÂ
It was a pleasure. Truly, thank you for having me.
MEG
[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for tuning into another episode of Shift the Power: A Learning-Centered Podcast. This podcast is produced by Global Learning Partners and Greg Tilton with music by Una Walkenhorst. To find out more about Global Learning Partners, whether it be our course offerings, consulting services, free resources or blogs, go to www.globallearningpartners.com. We invite you to sign up for our mailing list, subscribe to our podcast and find us on social media to continue the dialogue. If you enjoy the show, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or your preferred podcast player. [OUTRO MUSIC FADES]